vwbus.no

Syncropaddy here in Southern Ireland. I need some sound advice from you guys if you dont mind.

My son is driving to Nordkapp via Sweden in November in his VW Passat 130TDi 4motion. From Odense in Denmark, is route will be via Sweden up the E4 and onto the E8, crossing into Finland and up to Norway on the E69 to Hammerfest. On his return trip he will take the E6 to Tromso, Trondheim, 3 via Koppang to Oslo and on down through Germany and eventually to Cherbourg where he will catch the ferry home to Ireland.

His snow/winter driving experience is limited but is a good solid careful and skilled driver. He is, however, young (23) and his attitude is very easy going, not really realising the nature of the Scandinavian winter. He will be on his own.

He does not have studded tyres in his plan which I think is stupid, nor does he have snow chains. I feel he needs winter tyres at least and other items such as heavy clothing, emergency supplies, sleeping bags, head gear, tow ropes, shovels and tools. I believe the mobile phone network is very good along that route.

What would you carry with you if you were to do a route like that and how long would it take?

I look forward to your answers and thank you in advance

Andrew

Hi Andy...If he's gonna be in the north of Norway in November its gonna be winter...most likely with plenty of snow ! I dont think he will have much choice but to use snow chains atleast ! If he's going up as far as Vardø and Vadsø area, there are some mountain passes to drive over. He wont do that on summer tyres..no way...he wont stay on the road....They dont cost much and they are readily available in all motor/car parts shops, over in Ireland too Im sure. I would definately avise him to bring a set with him...or buy them on his way north through Sweden. Im sure he will need them. Not to have them is stupidity honestly.
All of the things you mentioned...warm clothes - blanket - shovel ect ect are always advised to have in the car in winter when driving in remote places such as he will be. The mobile network is very good.

syncropaddy wrote:He does not have studded tyres in his plan which I think is stupid, nor does he have snow chains. I feel he needs winter tyres at least and other items such as heavy clothing, emergency supplies, sleeping bags, head gear, tow ropes, shovels and tools. I believe the mobile phone network is very good along that route.

What would you carry with you if you were to do a route like that and how long would it take?
Andrew

Hi syncropaddy winter tyres or snow chain is a must! the equipment that you suggest is good (heavy clothing, sleeping bags, emergency supplies, tow ropes, shovel and tools). Mobile phone network is good.

Google maps (or other) can be used to plan the route and how long it will take... dont plan to drive too long and too fast on the snow... put in a couple of extra days

Helo Andrew!

In the north there is prohibited to use summertyres after 15th of october. Police is looking for cars/drivers with illegal tyres at that time of the year. It cost your NOK 2000 to be stopped by the policie with pr. wheel if you drive with wrong tyres. I just recommend M + S tyres with studs. New ones! (Nokian Hakka or Continental tyres marked with M+S and others, buy them i Scandiavia, then you will get the best). This i very important, as the matter of fact å lot of foreigners is in serous accidents because of wrong tyres in the winter in Scandinavia.

It is possible it will be cold weather. He have to bring warm clothes/shoes, food and sleeping bag. Check out that the cooling water on the engine don't freeze (must hold about - 40 degrees celisus). It coulg be very hard to sleep in the car in the winter in Norway/Sweden. Bring ekstra blancets too.

Be aware of the weather. He have to cross mountains. The weather could ble very difficult with snow, cold, columndriving over the mountainpasses, closed roads, and roads with very difficult drivingsituastions on snow and ice.

He should be very careful - the legal speedlimit must be taken care of - its often the best to drive much slovlier than permitted.

He is very unexperienced - I will suppose - on swedish/norwegian weather. He should take care - it could be very difficult drivingsircumstances.

The main roads are salted in the south. But not everywhere. So it can be very difficult driving on ice, often icy in a way you don't even can see with your eyes.

Why couldn't he take this trip in the summertime? Much better!!!!!

Hope you understand this english!

erjo Tlf. 00 47 951 34175 (Hamar near Oslo).

Hey Guys thank you so much for your assistance, it is of great help to me.

Why doesn't he do the trip in the summer? No challenge to do it then !!!

I will source 225/45/17 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 for him in Ireland as carrying an extra set of wheels in the car is silly.

I think another problem is the time it will take to complete the journey. How long should it take to drive from Hammerfest to Oslo in November?

Are there many hotels along the route?

What grade oil should he have in his 130TDi engine?

Andrew

Insane to even consider this trip without good quality wintertires. Summertires and chains wont be good and will pretty sure damage the car driving all those 100's of kilometers.
Also as mentioned above, without them, if he dont crash and get hurt(maybe he crashes into someone else also?), the police will for sure fine him and deny him to keep on driving until he gets a set of descent wintertires on.

I dont know anything about his insurance of course, but in Norway, driving with bad quality tires, especially in wintertime, will most likely put the driver of the car in debt for all damages if there will be an accident.

Welcome to the winter with all it's great conditions

Ive done that trip myself a few years ago. Im sure someone in the forum here will magic up a 'route finder' for you, but I seem to remember its about 2000 kilometers...and if his average speed is 70 k/hr..then it will give you a rough idea of the time without stops. Theres always a hotel or motel along the way, especially as he will be doing main roads too. When I did it, it was in a van and we were 3 drivers that drove in shifts non stop through the night, but I cant remember how many hours it took now, but you can work it out roughly.

I would guess a week would be a good time to do hammerfest-oslo in winter then you have time too wach the scenery too. I think3- 4 days is the fastest that i would consider safe when taking road conditions and time to sleep into account. I have driven Steinkjer-Oslo a few times, takes about 10 hours at a comfortable speed. There are some nice places along the road, Dovre (a mountain crossing) is really nice if the weather is, a lot of other places are worth the trip too.

One little tip for the driving: look out for moose and reindeer! Moose's are hard to see in the dark, and can come out of no were right in front of you. Reindeer tend to line up along the road and wait for a car to cross in front of!

Hammerfest-Oslo is about 2000 km when driving E6 through Norway

225/45-17 on a passat?? you might as well drive a sled.. the car is light and will not get grip.. go for 195/65-15 or 16" rimms with 195/60 or 55- 16.. thinner the tyres, the better grip... think about it.. it is in an emergency, a matter of life or death, brutally said, but fact.. scandinavian winters especially in the northern Norway, Sweden or Finland can be brutal... combined with steep hills and heavy drops is a bad connection for a young driver.. give him good equipment and give him a safe trip. And put in some snow chains that actually fits the wheels..

Bon Voyage..

PS. and go for WINTER tyres NOT ALLyear tyres. BIIIIIG DIFFERENCE..

2nding Rapidspeed's advice about narrower tyres. Smaller wheels (16" or 15", if they're available) will also behave better on the road. Motor, the membership magazine of Norway's equivalent to the RAC, had a test of identical winter thread patterns on the same car, but with 16", 17", 18" and 19" wheels, and the less rubber they had on the tyre the longer brake distances were. Here's the test in Norwegian: http://www.naf.no/Forbrukertester/Dekk/ ... gere-grep/

Bold type in the tables are studded tyres.

Check the coolant, wiper fluid and the condition of the battery before going as well. And please bring some warm clothes, a blanket, water and some snacks in the car. A roadside wait when temperatures are below freezing can be downright dangerous.

Edit: Tell him to have a good trip, BTW. It's not that bad as long as the proper precautions have been taken. Northern Scandinavia is very different from Ireland, and I'm sure he'll have a brilliant time.

Thanks to all of you who have replied to this posting. I have no doubt in my mind as to the danger of this journey as I have good snow driving experience, but not enough for what a good Scandinavian winter can produce!

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19 ... 002525.jpg

This is a sample of what the Irish weather could produce which is nothing to what you guys get.

Interesting information on the tyre sizes. I completely forgot that narrower tyres would be better. The car is fitted with 17" alloys but Im sure we could get a set of 15" steels and fit 195/65/15.
I have 225/70/15 Continental M&S tyres fitted to my Multivan syncro - would they be too wide?
He will have fitted a new battery, wiper blades, double strength antifreeze and would buy washer fluid locally.
He will also have all the other equipment already mentioned.
Are Bridgestone Blizzak tyres good?

Keep the information coming guys as I might just follow him in the Syncro

You can see what we do in Ireland if you look into my garage on the club80-90 forum

http://forum.club8090.co.uk./

Let us not forget that we are talking November here... The real winter usually hasnt started then. So everything mentioned here is worst case scenario, and you should of course prepare for that. And be prepared that the weather is changing very quick. But, that said, he will probably have a very nice trip And the Blizzak is an excellent winter tire, although i havent tried the LM-25, only the older versions. And go with the 195, not the 225 Another thing not mentioned here is light. When going that far north it will be dark most of the day so good driving lights are important.

If he has access to the internet while he's here, he could always drop in here if he wanted to...just to say hi, or if he needs any help or advice. You know we in here are scattered all over the country.
Yea, why not come in the Syncro Andrew..You'd have a great time..! Just bring enough cash for your fuel bill if your'e gonna do the whole trip in it though..!! haha...
Nearly all the libraries here have free internet/machines for use...

I feel humbled with the help that you guys are giving me. Thank you all very much.

Yes we were aware of the daylight issue and he has high wattage bulbs fitted.
I can source 195/60/16 Blizzak LM25 tyres here in Ireland.
He will have a laptop and mobile broadband stick with him and access to this site as Ill give him my details.
I see diesel is about €1.22/litre. Its €1.02/litre here in Ireland!

Two more questions

1. What oil should he use? 0W 40 maybe?
2. What about turning off the engine? Should he fit a heater of some kind?

Thanks again

Andrew

As far as oil goes, a quality synthetic oil is good, I believe mobil1 has a 0W-40. Personally I live at the coast and use the Mobil1 5W-50.

And turning off the engine... I dont understand, its a diesel, so you dont turn it off No, to be serious, its no problem before you reach about -20 degrees. What could be a problem is the diesel quality. In the winter the oilcompanies up north add a fair amount of paraffine to the diesel to keep it from freezing. so if you fill up in the south, and you drive north and into the cold you could have a problem.

I've driven through the north of Norway in different winter conditions and with cars of varying quality (not to mention tires ).

Snow chains: I wouldn't bother. With 4 motion and good tires he'll be fine.

The E4: the most boring road in Europe.... I'd recommend the inland route (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_national_road_45).

Extra driving lights!!!!!! An absolute requirement when driving in the north in november. High wattage bulbs is good, but he needs some Hella or Bosch items for that extra safety, stopping distance and driving comfort. Think reindeer, moose and other wildlife by and on the road... Bosche rallye lights have saved me, my car and various wildlife on several occasions!

Sounds like a great trip is in store for SYncropaddy Jr! It's a great time of year to experience the northern parts. If you need any trip tips, PM me

vwooosh...!!! wrote:Im sure someone in the forum here will magic up a 'route finder' for you, but I seem to remember its about 2000 kilometers...

Here's one: http://visveg.vegvesen.no/Visveg/mapviewer.jsf?lang=en

The turning the engine off thing is really about parking up in a hotel at night and not being able to start again due to the cold. He will have good antifreeze in the cooling system but will it be enough. Do cars freeze up at -20c?

In the winter of 1997 the wind chill got down to -15c at our old house and none of the cars would start as they were parked directly in the wind.

We have planned the route on Google Maps and will have a Garmin in the car as well

I dont think we have any more questions at the moment thanks!

A good antifreeze in the correct mix should hold to about -40C and i cannot imagine you will experience that in November. However all the electric systems must be in good condition, A battery will have only a fraction of its original capacity in the cold. and the glowplugs take their share of the already limited capacity. Combine this with too thick oil, and you are stuck It is very common to install electric block heaters, Defa being the most used.

syncropaddy wrote:The turning the engine off thing is really about parking up in a hotel at night and not being able to start again due to the cold. He will have good antifreeze in the cooling system but will it be enough. Do cars freeze up at -20c?

Most likely you will not get those temperatures in November, and still if you reach -20 it will not be any problems with local diesel.

But - make sure door locks and seals don't freeze.
A bit of thin oil before the trip should do the trick.

Thanks all for your help. Maybe we will meet up in Mammutpark in May 2010. Or maybe we will meet in November if I decide to go with him

And remember, if you buy studded tires, you cant use them in Germany.. So I would go for unstudded winter tires. (Since you said you were going via Cherbourgh.)

I think somebody mentioned to look out for Moose and Reindeer didnt they...Just dont forget to look out the the Norwegian Troll ok..?? That one can spring out on, just when your'e nodding off behind the wheel...!

vwooosh...!!! wrote:Just dont forget to look out the the Norwegian Troll ok..?? That one can spring out on, just when your'e nodding off behind the wheel...!

Is he any relation to the Irish Leprechaun and does he have a pot of gold with him?